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Niqab Ban Rekindles Debate In Egypt


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#1 ahmedk

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 10:26 PM

Niqab ban rekindles debate in Egypt
Matt Bradley, - The National (Abu Dhabi)
October 07. 2009

http://www.thenation.../710069845/1002

CAIRO // The question of the niqab, the conservative Islamic veil that obscures the face, has once again entered public debate following two decisions in the past week to ban or restrict its use at Egyptian educational institutions.

The renewed controversy over the face-covering, for which government religious authorities have long expressed their distaste, came to light this week after the head of Al Azhar, one of the world
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#2 ahmedk

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 10:30 PM

opinion email from Br Halimi on the Tantawi edict on banning Niqab.

see here for info: http://english.aljaz...1027899622.html

Aversion to the Cloth of Women (The Niqaab)?



To:


Ministry of Religious Endowments in the Egyptian State

awkafministry@yahoo.com

Ambassador of Egypt in Australia, Mohammed Mostafa Tawfeek

egyembassy@bigpond.com

Ambassador of Egypt in the United Kingdom, Hatem Seif El-Naser

eg.emb_london@mfa.gov.eg

Ambassador of Egypt in the United States of America, Mohamed Nabil Ismail Fahmy

embassy@egyptembassy.net - embassy@egyptembdc.org

Consul of Egyptian Consulates in Sydney and Melbourne

consular@egypt.org.au - Posted to: Level 3, 241 Commonwealth Street, Surry Hills, NSW 2012 and 124 Exhibition St, Melbourne, VIC 3000



Text:



When the aversion of the Egyptian state and government dwindles to a fine linen, over the face of Muslim women, it is indicative of a deep-rooted apprehension. In this cause, the state has recently employed an array of methods to intimidate women into removing the face veil, including:

1. The Ministry of Religious Endowments disseminating propaganda booklets denouncing the face veil as 'un-Islamic' and merely a 'habit'.

2. The Ministry of Health planning to ban doctors and nurses from wearing the face-veil in hospitals and medical facilities.

3. The Shaykh of Al-Azhar, an employee of the Egyptian Government and a servant to its instructions, publicly and recklessly denouncing a young girl for wearing the face veil and asking her to remove it, instantly, in his presence.

4. The Shaykh of Al-Azhar announcing, via 'Al-Masry Al-Youm' that women who wear the face veil will be denied the opportunity of teaching or learning with Al-Azhar and its schools.

Even those nations with no association to Islam have learnt to accommodate the face veil as a respectful display of individual piety. And that is much unlike the states which claim Islam as the national religion, such as Egypt, that tend to be the most unaccommodating towards the Muslims and their individual rights and religious practice.

And though the Egyptian constitution, or whatever is left of it, supposedly recognises individual liberties and personal freedoms, the state's concerted campaign against the face veil continues, demonstrating an absolute transgression against even the state's alleged constitutional parameters:

Egyptian Constitution, Ratified in 1980, Part Three: Article Fourty One


Individual freedom is a natural right and shall not be touched. Except in cases of a flagrant delicate no person may be arrested, inspected, detained or his freedom restricted or prevented from free movement except by an or necessitated by investigations and preservation of the security of the society.


So in which way is the face veil a case of 'flagrant delicate' which entails negation of any individual freedom, the initiation of a campaign of suppression in the country's public institutions or a restriction of any individual woman's preferences? Is the face veil a display of obscenity, an example of society's moral free-fall or blatant flagrancy which undermines the righteousness of society? The answer is no.

Part Three: Article Fourty Six


The State shall guarantee the freedom of belief and the freedom of practice of religious rites.


In which way is the face veil not a religious rite, considering its significance amongst the followers of certain jurisprudential schools, its claim to orthodoxy and over a millennium of religious instruction? Has the Egyptian state and its religious employees, in a tandem of mastership and concubinage, rendered itself the possessor of a moral compass which fourteen centuries of Islam somehow could not see?

Even further, and in diametric opposition to the incessant war on modesty, the Egyptian state has perfected laxity in regards to toplessness and nudity at the country's resorts. And that is without mentioning the cultured depravity and insolence which decorates media forms by way of provocative artists and their gushing manifestations of vice and sin; so where is the state's concern or the fervour of the nation's religious leaders?

And whilst the naive will deem this a selectivity of values and misapplication of policy, it is in fact a concerted and constant campaign stemming from the apparatuses of the state: promote what sedates the people and relegatestheir attainment of internal and external realities of faith. Hence, all that is associated with a fermenting revival of Islam, in its most comprehensive social and political form, is to be rejected and opposed
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#3 Shamsy

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 11:02 PM

I really liked the first article! (Sorry didnt read the second yet)

I mean thats disgusting, honestly, although, it does help with choices now. Al-Azhar is out of the question to go and study in. I find that mini-fatwa appalling! what a down-hill turn Al-Azhar has taken. From being the top to being the lowest! Im so disgusted and outraged! How dare he even think of banning niqab in a Muslim country at an Islamic institute of knowledge! They're all shafi'e too! which as far as i know says niqab is fard! I mean you could understand if it isn't recommended in the west, but it should surely be recommended in the east! The home and hub of Muslims!

What blatant rubbish.

Egypt annoys me, everything about it annoys me. Im so annoyed!

Like what kinda sheikh looks at his student and says take immediately off your niqab in my presence! WHAT KIND OF SHEIKH SAYS THAT!!! OHMYGOD!

they have some serious issues al azhar, someone has taken on the role of teaching without a pure heart or intention and it has shown up in all its ugliness today, is this not corruption!? So what if salafi channels promote the niqab, if your a muslim country you should have the freedom to wear the niqab! As for those 15 boys they too dont have pure hearts or intentions or fear of Allah if they feel the need to sneak into the girls dormitory!

I've seen photos of shikhs that shake hands with women at graduation ceremonies! like :shock: !! What ever happened to hayaa, to respect. :doh:

The only thing I can conclude from this is that there is no more Al-Azhar, it died.
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#4 amar_labedi

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 11:12 PM

Assalamalikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

Indeed the matter of Veil is becoming a very very hot topic these days all over .
Few colleges in India are also banning students who cover their faces.
Now the question is whether it is a must to cover the face or not. Regarding this issue Dr.Zakir Naik (Peace TV) IRF President has visited Hyderabad Al Hind and in this regard he said not necessary to cover face and hands withing a few days Dr.Israr Ahmed International Islamic Scholar from Pakistan visited Hydedrabad and the same question was answered by him as If you dont cover the face then what is meant by Veil/Pardah.

Please enlighten accordingly.

Jazakallah
amar

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#5 Ghaith

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 07:32 AM

It's not a question of whether it is compulsory or not - even though there are many scholars who in fact take that view. It is a question of prohibiting something which is halal. To say it is a cultural practice, or something only promulgated by our salafi brothers, is just utter nonsense. Security issues can be dealth with out resorting to this. How ironic that western countries are coming to terms with this and an Arab country is going the other way.
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#6 Ibn Tarek

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 09:15 PM

thanks for posting Br Ahmed.
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#7 Sara2travel

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 05:45 AM

The underlying fear of Egyptian officials is from an arousal in Islamic sentiment and identification with the Shariah's potency. For once people understand monotheism in its truest form, adopt the prophetic tradition in its comprehensive application and aspire to excellence in their personal lives they will also articulate the need for social and political conditions which are in harmony with what they believe and practice.

Strictly to the point.



Egypt annoys me, everything about it annoys me. Im so annoyed!

Sometimes I don't know how some people think over here!!! But to be on the fair side, there are A LOT of people struggling for their survival, here in Egypt. There are a lot of people who are becoming richer while many other are becoming unbearably poorer. And from my opinion and observations, the last thing that those people who are living below the poverty line think about is, if the niqqab got banned or not in Al-azhar unis. People basically don't care any more, people are striving for survival under many pressures. The bottom line, people just want to stay away from trouble while struggling for survival.


How ironic that western countries are coming to terms with this and an Arab country is going the other way.

That's one of the questions that always pops in my mind: why & how are the Western Muslims better Muslims than the Arab ones?! Mashallah, I find that Western Muslims are more connected to Islam than the Arab ones, they know more about Islam, and live for Islam.

Note: I've heard a couple of times that sometimes men wear the niqqab in order to deceive a lot of women :wacko:
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#8 Ibn Tarek

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 06:15 AM

Canadian Muslims... all 300 of them apparently :blink: ... support a ban on Burqas:

http://news.theage.c...91009-gp9l.html
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#9 Kal

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 07:34 AM

Canadian Muslims... all 300 of them apparently :blink: ... support a ban on Burqas:

http://news.theage.c...91009-gp9l.html



What a joke these newspapers are. That group has less members than Jews for Jesus.
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#10 Othman

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 10:18 AM

^Lol! :star:
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#11 Othman

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 03:57 PM

[size=4][b]With Scholars Like These
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#12 Othman

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 04:07 PM


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#13 Shamsy

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 04:47 PM

^ Thanks for posting.

Unbelievable honestly. That sheikh needs to be expelled, banished and locked away in a dungeon and have the key thrown out.
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#14 Sara2travel

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 05:58 PM

This came in our local newspaper today:

Ban on the burqa-Azhar University and college towns

Cairo from Ola Moustafa Amer:
In an attempt to put an end to the continuous escalation in the crisis objection Sheikh Al-Azhar Al-Azhar student to wear the veil inside her, the flower Osdralamcil up after an emergency meeting called by the Grand Imam Dr. Mohamed Sayed Tantawi yesterday several resolutions to regulate the wearing of the veil within the institution and Azhar.

Came in the forefront of preventing students and teachers from wearing the veil in the classroom of girls and taught by female teachers only, and to all levels of elementary, preparatory and secondary schools, and apply the same resolution, the university cities of female students.

It was also decided to prevent students at Al Azhar University to wear the veil in the examination rooms for girls, with the observation confined to women. In a statement to Al-Azhar Supreme Council is not against women wearing the veil in her personal life, or in the street In daily dealings, and work .. but it is against the use of this right is misplaced.


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#15 Sara2travel

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 06:07 PM

Canadian Muslims... all 300 of them apparently :blink: ... support a ban on Burqas:

http://news.theage.c...91009-gp9l.html


So now everyone is using that sheik's claim for banning the burqa as an excuse for them to ban it in their countries. I don't think that by banning it they're going to remove the iman from those girls' and women's hearts; it's actually going to make it stronger!!!!!
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#16 muslimeh

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 08:58 PM

this is just sad.
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#17 Shamsy

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 11:31 PM

Someone tell me how did Al-Azhar university turn into France #2? :doh:

Im never returning to this thread coz it does my head in.
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#18 Othman

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 08:57 AM

Someone tell me how did Al-Azhar university turn into France #2? :doh:

Colonialism.
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#19 Lantern

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 10:39 AM

^ AND because Muslims simply arent behaving like Muslims. Colonialists arent magicians.
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#20 Ibn Tarek

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 10:59 AM

Canadian Muslims... all 300 of them apparently :blink: ... support a ban on Burqas:

http://news.theage.c...91009-gp9l.html


The 300 Canadian Muslim visionaries:

This is from wiki about the Canadian organisation calling for the ban:


(not that you can believe everything you read on it):


It was formed in December 2001, in the wake of 9/11 by a group of Toronto area liberal and secular Muslims led by Tarek Fatah. It is the only Muslim organization in Canada to ask for a "separation of religion and state in all matters of public policy."

The group has gained prominence by opposing the implementation of Shariah Law in civil law in Ontario and supporting the country's same-sex marriage legislation. The group also promotes gender equality and was involved in organizing a Muslim prayer session in which the prayers were led by a woman, Raheel Raza. It has also been critical of Islamic fundamentalism and has urged the government to ban donations to Canadian religious institutions from abroad arguing that doing so will curb extremism.[1]
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#21 Ibn Tarek

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 11:00 AM

This came in our local newspaper today:


Well it seems like the mushayk around him only wanted to budge on the smallest of matters. I think Tantawi has no credibility, only power, and even that can't get you everything you need when you call purple orange and ask for it to be legislated.

And how rude to the student.
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#22 Othman

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 11:14 AM

^ AND because Muslims simply arent behaving like Muslims. Colonialists arent magicians.

True.

Colonialists, plus the Muslims because of whom they did what they did, and now, the Muslims who aren't doing anything about it.
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#23 Lantern

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 11:40 AM

, and now, the Muslims who aren't doing anything about it.


Yeah, whoever they may be. <_<
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#24 Ademind

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 10:56 PM

Canadian Muslims... all 300 of them apparently :blink: ... support a ban on Burqas:

http://news.theage.c...91009-gp9l.html

:(
May Allah subahanallahu wa Taala guide these MisGuided "progressives" :roll: <_<

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#25 Ademind

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 11:06 PM

[quote name='Othman' post='847018' date='Oct 9 2009, 03:57 PM'][size=4][b]With Scholars Like These
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#26 Kulazzi

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 11:07 PM

How ironic that western countries are coming to terms with this and an Arab country is going the other way.


:salam:

Subhan'Allah, I was just thinking the same as you Br. Ghaith. What is up with these bans?! Spreading across like fire in the non-Western countries..the least of which you would expect the bans to be coming from..:(.
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#27 Sam

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 05:41 AM

Bans like this often have the opposite effect, raising awareness of the issue and forcing the people to take back control of their own decisions.

I believe a similar thing happened in Malaysia in the early eighties, a politician came out publicly basically discouraging women from wearing hijab, it had the opposite effect in that more women started wearing it.
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#28 alpha test

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 12:58 PM

the Sayyid Muhammad Tantawi incident has already been proven to be a lie, he has come out and made a statment on the issue which is floating around the net somewhere.....it just never occured.

The original article making the claim reads more like a "he said, she said" story written by teenager than anything with credibility.
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